hi ed......mask made forward swept flying wings..perhaps look in that direction too.
russ.


On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:51 AM, planebuilder <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> wrote:



Ed try Martin Simons book, Model airplane aerodynamics

---

From: Edward Pickens <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
To: "This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it." <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 9:51 PM

Subject: Re: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: CDII -fuselage




The comment about this being an important brainstorming session was spot on. I know I have learned a lot and considered solutions that I may never have reached if I was going about this by myself. The other day it was mentioned to use carbon tube covered with dacron to make the fuselage. I did some basic calculations, and the weight savings are increadible. It also dropped the cost a very substantial amount for the fuselage. The issue now is the CG is too far forward for big guys even with a little forward sweep in the wings. I was wondering if anyone knew of a book that covers forward sweep in detail. Every text that I own only mentions a few lines about forward sweep, then moves on. I would really like to know what my limits are and how the structure needs to be changed to accomidate the new wing design. -Ed
From: Kenny Andersen <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: CDII -fuselage


yes Jeri -- the more information the better. As well it would be interesting to know whether there will be plans available, or some type of kit? 65 Kg is very impressive! PLEASE tell us more!

--- On Mon, 3/12/12, Jirka <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> wrote:


From: Jirka <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: CDII -fuselage
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Date: Monday, March 12, 2012, 3:58 PM



Hello Friends,

I´ve got new info about Axels, but before of it - weight is somewhere between 83 to 89kg - seems close to XXTherms 80kg.

Actually is developed / builded new Axel powered with 10kW electric, with flaps, empty weight of 65kg without engine, max 200kg, chord 75cm, sink ,55m/s , 50 - 180km/h. I have pic of old/new airfoil, xfoil plot, some photos of building etc. - could place later if interests.

Regards,
Jeri

--- In This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., russell wilson wrote:
>
> hi i too thaught the axel looked out of proportion for a 55kg
> aircraft......id like to see the confusion stay;)
>
> i think the swept wing is a step in the wrong direction....complexity and exra build time will will keep it a dream...if you want a sucses full aircraft it needs to be safe,easy and quick to build.....constant cord wing....1 rib...they dont want to stall a tip...no taper in the spar...you dont need twist...you dont have to change airfoil at any point in the wing.
>
> a plank type aircraft with a reflex airfoil,very short tail boom and
> fin...will give you what you want for under 70 kg.
>
> a cliped wing carbon dragon is an extremely good solution.for a heavier pilot.
>
> take the time to foot launch a hanglider..30 to 45 kg then your view on foot launching the dragon will be ..not practical..(it can be done and it can be landed on foot).the aircraft you guys are conseeving is already over 70 kg...if you think you can save weight by leaving the doors off then do so.
>
> hey if it comes out too heavy...stamp it with a 55kg sticker;)
> russ.
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 2:36 AM, KarlS <kschneider@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> > Yes I agree 155 is to heavy to foot launch. However the ULF-1 is foot launch able. I think a steady wind to help lift the aircraft is what makes it possible. To do it once classifies it as footlaunchable.
> > I'm just saying to do it just to do it. Once. The pilot has to be on the cg like the Archaeopteryx then. I'm all for roll launching.
> >
> > A 100 % composite under 155 is going to be tough. I agree. I have a lot of samples of different layups. I measure my sample in 6" by 6" squares. 14 to 16 grams for a 6x6 is pretty light for composite sandwich layups. Do we have the sq ft surface area of the CD? Multiply that by 60 grams and you have a composite skin weight. That's without load carrying spars, etc.
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > In This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., Kenny Andersen
> > <kennyrayandersen@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 3/11/12, KarlS <kschneider@> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: KarlS <kschneider@>
> >
> > > Subject: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: CDII -fuselage
> > > To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > > Date: Sunday, March 11, 2012, 8:25 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > Karl â€" I don’t think you are missing anything â€" I think
> >
> > > their boom looks longer, so whatever the weight is it has more > > > leverage (less weight to balance the moments), so I’m not
> > > sure how much more > > > it weighs, and from their sheet, I’m > > > seeing conflicting numbers on weight â€" Ib don’t think the
> > > 55KG number is correct and I’m not sure where that came
> > > from. In the Axel Word doc in the files section it says 89 Kg > > > is the empty weight â€" I believe that’s possible…
> > >
> > >
> > > You really have to think light-weight here â€" I’m not sure
> > > it’s
> > > possible to do it like the Axel and make the 70 Kg ultralight
> > > weight â€" In fact
> > > I’m pretty sure you can’t. Look at the Archaeopteryx
> > > â€" there is no canopy, very little structure for the pod
> > > etc. It’s
> > a bit short of the 15 pounds though, so
> > > I think we could get some kind of pod â€" just don’t know
> > > whether it can be a
> > > contoured composite one or a frame and skin.Â
> > > Of course, you can do it either way, but the weight won’t be > > > the same…
> >
> > > I think 155 Lb is too heavy to foot launch.