Hi Mark,

Delighted they're of use to someone! My aim is to build my CD entirely out of composites, and rather than re-write the construction manual for my process, I thought I'd just document the build using just video and the occasional post! With the longer evenings now upon us here in Ireland, I'm back at work fabricating more parts for the tail/rudder/H-stab/elevator and tail boom. More videos to come no doubt!

I found the wet lay-up process messy, hazardous and expensive in resin (I wasted a fair amount) and ended up with only passable results. My very first resin infusion attempt produced an absolutely perfect part first time, and was an altogether much cleaner, cheaper and much less stressful than the wet lay-up process, where the clock is ticking from the moment you mix your resin and hardener. With the vacuum infusion process you have as much time as you like to get all the layers of cloth, core, peelply, mesh and vac-bag to conform to your mould before you start to mix your resin/hardener.

The resin I'm using is supplied by www.easycomposites.co.uk/ - I'm using their 'IN2 Epoxy Infusion Resin' - www.easycomposites.co.uk/Epoxy-Resin.aspx, post-cured to 80C. Contact Easy Composites and talk to them about your needs - their staff are really helpful, and I get the impression that they are all well experienced in using their products in the real world.

The vacuum infusion process can be scaled up to almost any size of project - there are Youtube videos of *big* yachts and power boat hulls being infused as single items! If you can build a sufficiently perfect (shape and rigidity) mould for a full wing skin then vacuum infusion is the process I'd use - it is infinitely cleaner, safer and more efficient of resin than wet the lay-up process. That said, the vacuum infusion mesh (resin transport) layer does require a calculable amount of excess resin above that which ends up in the carbon fabric layers. Again, talk to the guys at Easy Composites - they have a formula for calculating the excess. With the resin infusion process, you infuse your vac-bag of parts until the resin has travelled about 2/3rds - 3/4 of the length of the bag before clamping off the resin supply line, then let the vacuum draw the excess resin in the bag through the remaining dry cloth. I calculate the approximate amount of resin I'm going to need and then measure it out into a number of small paper cups. I only mix the hardener into the resin pots as and when I actually need them, so often I end up using much less resin than I at first calculate! I would recommend using the slow-set hardener as this will give you extra time to make use of the excess resin in the vac-bag and maximise resin use efficiency.

You can ensure that the resin infuses the cloth layers either side of a coam core either by perforating the foam core at regular intervals (you can buy pre-perforated foam board also) or you can use an alternative core material like Soric or Coremat - www.easycomposites.co.uk/Category/Coremat-Soric-and-Others.aspx. These flexable cores would be ideal if you are laying up into a female mould for the wing skins. I'm using 5mm thick closed-cell PVC foam board for the majority of my ribs and parts, and a sandwich of 5mm + 3mm foam boards to make up the 8mm thick ribs for the flaperons, which have to be kept this thick or you end up with dimensional problems when you come to assemble them - I nearly didn't spot that elephant trap!

I bought almost all my vacuum gear from Easy Composites in the UK as they were the most competitave on price of all the other sources. Their vac pumps, resin traps and consumables are all top quality - www.easycomposites.co.uk/Category/Vacuum...s-and-Equipment.aspx.

Mark - if you're starting your own build then please keep us posted of your progress and I'd be delighted to add your project to the new CD website. Ask all the questions you need - the only dumb questions are the ones that don't get asked! There are some pretty smart minds out there with a wealth of knowledge to tap into - I'll do my best to be helpful too!

All the best,

Phil

www.ihpa.ie/carbon-dragon

---

From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] On Behalf Of ekolbs
Sent: 21 November 2012 19:12
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: Phil's CD - resin infusion



Phil,
Thanks for the great updates and videos! Could you please specify the resin and hardener that you use? Does the resin-to-cloth ratio end up similar to a hand lay-up? I am very interested in this process. It looks to be a practical way for me to fabricate large lay-ups by myself. Can this process be used to lay up a wing skin where you have several layers of cloth, then a layer of foan and finally a layer of cloth? Will the resin flow to both sides of the foam to sufficiently wet the cloth? Any other info is always appreciated. What brand/model vac pump do you use? Thank you in advance. It is appreciated. Mark

--- In This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., "Philip Lardner" wrote:
>
> Hi Kenny,
>
> The drag spar on the CD runs from the main wing spar at rib #3, through rib
> #2 and exits somewhere(?) through the root rib (#1) to join onto the tail
> boom.
>
> The 1g load on rib #2 is 8.51lbs, which goes up to 42.53lbs at 5g and
> 68.05lbs at 8g. My test ribs were good to just shy of 10g (yes, overkill!)
> Full numbers for all ribs in my spreadsheet in the group files section.
>
> I haven't a notion of the load on the drag spar yet! Any ideas on how to do
> the calculations?
>
> Phil.
>
> _____
>
> From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] On Behalf Of Kenny
> Andersen
> Sent: 23 April 2012 23:16
> To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Subject: RE: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: Phil's CD - resin infusion
>
>
>
>
>
> Philm
>
> generally you would split the one with the least load. Having not done the
> cal for the dreag spar, I can't say which one that is. Interestingly enough,
> the Arc seems to have a drag link rather than a full spar (which may be
> lighter. refresh my memory -- how much load did your rib support. Which
> rib was it? I'm showing (preliminary results that rib two is only good for
> about 50 Lb at the tip...
> Kenny
>
> --- On Mon, 4/23/12, Philip Lardner <philiplardner@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Philip Lardner <philiplardner@...>
> Subject: RE: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: Phil's CD - resin infusion
> To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Date: Monday, April 23, 2012, 4:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Second batch of ribs just cured - going into the oven tomorrow for post
> curing.
>
> My latest video offering -

- shows how the ribs
> are laid up before infusing. Riviting stuff... but I thought I might as well
> document how I'm doing each step in fabricating an all-Carbon Dragon!
>
> That's more or less all the main wing ribs done - just have to do the #2
> ribs, which I am going to re-jig a little. The original plans call for a one
> piece #2 rib and a two part drag spar glued either side of the rib. I think
> it makes more sense to fabricate the drag spar in one piece (for greater
> strength) and split the #2 rib instead. I'll make the #2 rib moulds once I
> have the exact dimensions, point of intersection and angles of the joins all
> worked out.
>
> Phil.
>
> _____
>
> From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] On Behalf Of KarlS
> Sent: 07 April 2012 14:45
> To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> Subject: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: Phil's CD - resin infusion
>
>
>
>
> Pretty cool Phil. Thanks again. Your video shows the real McCoy of what is
> done and how it is done.
>
> Looking forward to see how you trim it up. Your trim table sounds like it
> will be a nice tool as well.
>
> Karl
>
> --- In This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., "Philip Lardner"
> <philiplardner@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Karl,
> >
> > Busy week here, with all sorts of things distracting me away from CD work!
> > However, I did get my first batch of ribs post-cured and demoulded. I
> > haven't trimmed and finished them yet - I'm building an adjustable
> table/jig
> > to hold my high-speed multi-grinder (Dremmel type tool) this weekend and
> > will post details of that when it's all working.
> >
> > The ribs (in the rough) look great - the female moulds worked a treat and
> I
> > will do the next batch next week, hopefully. In the meantime, here are a
> > couple of videos showing the debagging and demoulding process.
> >
> > Debagging the cured parts after 48hrs curing at room temperature:
> >

> >
> > The parts were post-cured in an electric (kitchen) oven for
> > <blocked::mailto:4hrs@40C> 4hrs@40C, then
> > 4hrs@50C, 4hrs@60C and finally
> > <blocked::mailto:4hrs@80C> 4hrs@80C. This is a bespoke regime given to me
> by
> > the resin manufacturer for a higher final temperature than they normally
> > advertise, and specific to this particular resin.
> >
> > Demoulding the post-cured parts: <

>
> >

> >
> > Coming soon... trimming and finishing the parts...
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Phil.
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.] On Behalf Of KarlS
> > Sent: 06 April 2012 19:32
> > To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > Subject: [Carbondragonbuildersandpilots] Re: Phil's CD - resin infusion
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Phil,
> > I was just wondering how your parts turned out? Hopefully well.
> > Karl
> >
> > --- In This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
> > <mailto:Carbondragonbuildersandpilots%40yahoogroups.com> , "Philip
> Lardner"
> > <philiplardner@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > > Thought this might be of interest - I infused my first batch of ten wing
> > > ribs yesterday evening, Three hang gliding friends came along to watch
> the
> > > process... one of whom is taking a serious interest in the Carbon
> > Dragon...
> > >
> > > The moulds are very easy to set up, and with just a little care, all
> signs
> > > of bridging between the mould and the work surface can be easily removed
> > > with my favourite kitchen implement! My workshop is cooler than my
> kitchen
> > > (where I infused my initial test pieces) so I'll leave this batch to
> > > complete its initial cure for 24 - 48 hrs before I de-bag and trim them.
> > So
> > > far, all the signs look good. I really am impressed (as were my friends)
> > at
> > > just how clean the infusion process is - no mess or sticky hands
> > whatsoever!
> > >
> > > My only mistake was in thinking I needed one last pot of resin... most
> of
> > > which ended up in the catch pot. I had to remove that to outside the
> > > workshop before it exothermed and started a fire. Being able to clamp
> off
> > > the vac-bag from the catch pot to change the paper cup inside is very
> > > useful!
> > >
> > > One other very useful lesson learned was that I it would be easier (for
> > the
> > > purposes of eliminating bridging) to cut separate pieces of peel ply for
> > > each rib rather than (as I did this time) use a single large piece of
> > cloth
> > > to cover all the ribs. Cutting the infusion mesh layer in strategic
> places
> > > (but not into separate pieces) between the ribs also greatly assisted in
> > > removing bridging.
> > >
> > >

> > >
> > > Enjoy,
> > >
> > > Phil.